Majadiliano ya mtumiaji:Doc James

Google translations

Hi James, we better discuss here as this concerns this wiki.

1. As for google: we had two waves of translation exercises initiated by google with mixed -often bad- results. First was a kind of competetion, laptops to win as motivation - and lots of bullshit, more or less (or not at all) checked google translation kit stuff. Which does not work for English-Swahili (nor most other languages, it seems). We still have quite a number on the system.

2. Here comes the other problem: this wikipedia is more or less regularly run by less than 5 (6?) contributors (one regular African amongst us, the others Wazungu). Our capacity is not enough to check such waves of entries.

3. This was true also for the second google exercise (they love us - because everybody wants to something for Africa... and if people like Jimmy Wales come in and the google guys - who are we 5 to stop them? And then probably also some influence of the myth about swahili being "THE" African language - maybe because of Kwanzaa -... ) - this time at least without laptops to win... Again a bunch of articles, less google-translation-kit-bullshit, mostly by medical students, but a lot of bad Swahili. Because everybody learns about medical topics in English, especially in Kenya (from where response was strongest) use of Swahili is limited, and fewer ever expressed themselves on medical topics in Swahili.

4. Your entries look better at a first glance. But I would be happy if you took a break and try to sort what you have into our existing system. usefulness of articles is very much limited if they are not categorized. And if people write them without checking the existing article environment which leads to weak or no linking between articles. At least you should put all of them into [[Jamii:Magonjwa]] .

5. The other question is of course the idea of translation. I do it myself but rarely go to literal translations (except for short factual stubs). As a Lutheran i remember of course old Martin's "dem Volk aufs Maul schauen" (looking at the crowd's mouth - looking how people talk ). So i try to arrange it in a way which may be comprehensible for the East african reader. Which is not easy which i know from my entries on astronomy etc which hardly ever has been written about in Swahili. But better some correct even if not very comprehensible entries than nothing. We work here a lot with view to future when numbers of Internet users and people with access to internet rises and more will start to read and contribute...

6. Can't you motivate some (at least ONE) of your translation people to come on board as editor for the medical articles? Your articles really will be start to be useful if they are connected to the existing article environment - and this involves also relinking from the other side (adding, rewriting, existing articles) Kipala (majadiliano) 21:11, 28 Novemba 2013 (UTC)

Yes Mtumiaji:Kipala I agree completely that the articles need to be integrated into the rest of Swahili Wikipedia. I of course am unable to do that as I speak no Swahili. I have tried to convince the translators that they should edit here. I have also tried to convince people here to help with medical content. Both with little success.

I guess the hope is that as content on Swahili Wikipedia improves and internet access in Africa improves more people will become involved. Will tag the articles in question. James Heilman, MD (talk · contribs · email)(please leave replies on my talk page) 22:05, 28 Novemba 2013 (UTC)

While add the link going forwards. Am working to improve the English content before translation. We are also translating into 60 languages. Big project will continue pole pole. 100 article might turn into a Swahili medical textbook under an open license :-) James Heilman, MD (talk · contribs · email)(please leave replies on my talk page) 22:11, 28 Novemba 2013 (UTC)

I appreciate if you take up my request (no.4) and BEFORE uploading more material please join the entries uploaded sofar under a category (as: jamii:magonjwa and the non-deseases under jamii:afya. I told you we do at the moment not have the capacity to deal with waves of entries. The other thing -as you may guess from comments on majadiliano pages- you have uploaded articles about topics already in place. Cf Udhibiti wa uzazi vs Uzazi wa mpango. For medical specialists the translated entry uploaded by you has more specific information, the existing one is much shorter but gives a generally understandable introduction. The existing article has the better Swahili for the title... So please before going on try to look how to fit your material.

As it is unfortunate to create double entries by using different wording for the title you should definitely not again overwrite existing articles without previous debate (as happened in Kaswende. This is not accepted. I guess you will be familiar with this rule from other wikipedias. If not: it is a rule here. Kipala (majadiliano) 20:16, 29 Novemba 2013 (UTC)

Did you do any research about the content of wikipedias you want to enrich or did you just draw up your list of topics you assume everybody needs and assume nobody has and decided just to roll it out on "needy languages"?

I appreciate that this exercise will add some valuable content (hopefully mostly so, I could not thoroughly check the translation quality) to sw-wikipedia. But if you continue as before it looks like airdrop "aid" without ground contact. You know that a lot goes wrong that way with all help it may bring too. Kipala (majadiliano) 20:04, 29 Novemba 2013 (UTC)

The previous content that was overwritten had no references. Does Swahili have a requirement for references? Was there any accurate content that was overwritten / not in the new version of the article?

Efforts to recruit local Wikipedia's have taken place. Had offers of help for Swahili but they were not carried out unfortunately.

Have looked at the list of most viewed medical content in Swahili. The articles we have chosen to work on is primarily based on work by the World Health Organization and published in the Lancet. There will be 80 in all over the next 5 to 10 years. James Heilman, MD (talk · contribs · email)(please leave replies on my talk page) 00:27, 30 Novemba 2013 (UTC)

By the way so far there are twenty articles translated into Swahili.[1]. James Heilman, MD (talk · contribs · email)(please leave replies on my talk page) 00:48, 30 Novemba 2013 (UTC)

And of course do realize that this work will have less impact unless properly combined into Wikipedia. The hope was that a local community would help with this. Do realize that this might not happen immediately but hopefully over years it will. This is no time limit. James Heilman, MD (talk · contribs · email)(please leave replies on my talk page) 01:37, 30 Novemba 2013 (UTC)

James, I appreciate that you try to get an sw-speaker on board for the medical topics. As for overwriting I think I was clear: Please do not do it again without discussion first. I understand you do not know what you overwrite. Kipala (majadiliano) 18:52, 30 Novemba 2013 (UTC)

So I am sure you have looked at it. Was there anything in the old unreffed article that is correct yet is not in the new? If unreffed content is okay here I can leave it. James Heilman, MD (talk · contribs · email)(please leave replies on my talk page) 21:49, 30 Novemba 2013 (UTC)

This is not about content but about procedure and respect. We are so small that we do not want to loose active contributors because their work is not respected. That causes unneccesary anger which we can do without. So far we managed to build this wiki without edit wars. So please do not worry about this one overwrite but try to evade it in future. I understand that you probably have a lot of construction sites and also other things to do. But take a bit of time, announce your intention if you find a stub in place (because you are not able to edit), wait 3 days and write me an email kipala@web.de. In that one case I would have gone for retaining a few sentences in the intro part (which would make it better...). When I am though with my present project I will try to take time for your articles... Kipala (majadiliano) 22:11, 30 Novemba 2013 (UTC)

Okay that sounds reasonable. No disrespect to those here was implied. James Heilman, MD (talk · contribs · email)(please leave replies on my talk page) 22:12, 30 Novemba 2013 (UTC)

Faili:Lifting Techniques.png

Lifting technique suggested to avoid low back pain

Test

Mpendwa, nakuomba uangalie baada ya siku 2,3 kurasa hizi mbili:

1. Wikipedia:Wakabidhi#Kusafisha_orodha_ya_Wakabidhi_mwaka_2014 2. Wikipedia:Ukurasa_wa_jumuia#Wiki_Indaba_2014

Kuhusu 1) napendekeza kuwachagua wakabidhi wapya na kuondoa wale waliomo katika orodha ya wakabidhi lakini hawakuwepo tangu miaka 2.

Kuhusu 2): nahitaji msaada na mawazo yenu. Nitashiriki kwenye mkutano wa Wikimedia mwezi wa Juni. Inaonekana mimi ndipo mchnagiaji wa pekee kutoka Wikipedia yetu. Ninajitahidi kupeleka mawazo ya jumuiya yetu. Naomba michango!

Nitaongeza karibuni mawazo yangu kuhusu mambo ninayoona kuwa na maana kwa mtazamo wangu. Ujumb huu natuma kwa wachangiaji wanaoonekana katika orodha ya wachangiaji hai waliochangia zaidi ya mara 3 katika siku 30 zilizopita!

Ndimi wako Kipala (majadiliano) 20:49, 13 Mei 2014 (UTC)

Sorry not clear what the question is? James Heilman, MD (talk · contribs · email)(please leave replies on my talk page) 21:53, 13 Mei 2014 (UTC)

Double sorry- please forget it. I wrote from a list to all who contributed to some extent - but it makes only sense in Swahili (about elections and the indaba conference of Afrcan wikis). Cheers! Kipala (majadiliano) 22:07, 13 Mei 2014 (UTC)

Coordination

Note on integration

Hi Doc James, I see at your wikipedia project control panel that you re nearly thru with the list fo Swahili - congrats! Now can you please put a note at "circumcision" that the next translator should integrate into the existing "tohara" entry. To avoid overwrite.

Sure. Our efforts have shifted to translating 3/4 paragraph overviews that you can see here [2] James Heilman, MD (talk · contribs · email)(please leave replies on my talk page) 09:47, 8 Aprili 2015 (UTC)

entries not in the list

Then: obviously some entries are being translated which are not in that list. At the moment we have one on "First Aid" which needs reworking but the translator Phoebe Maina did not react to my query (she thanked me, but did not reply; the present lemma is not usable sw:Wikipedia.org////wiki////vidokezovyahudumayakwanza‎ but I am not yet sure what it is supposed to be; I entered a basic stub Huduma ya kwanza). Is there an additional list? Because:...

Not associated with our efforts. James Heilman, MD (talk · contribs · email)(please leave replies on my talk page) 09:49, 8 Aprili 2015 (UTC)

Missing categories

a number of the entries are not categorized nor joined to the data repository (interlanguage links). For example: the list in the control panel shows more than 30 entries done, but the category sw:Jamii:Translators_without_Borders only shows 19 entries. Do you have someone who can go thru this some time in the future? That would put my mind to rest a bit. At the moment we few people here have to follow up on entries of a workshop which need a lot of looking into it.

Yes that is on the list of things to do. We need more volunteers. James Heilman, MD (talk · contribs · email)(please leave replies on my talk page) 11:33, 8 Aprili 2015 (UTC)

Generally for "new languages"

For a language like Swahili which has not much tradition of discussing certain topics (because all/most educated people learned the topic only in English etc..) it is difficult to straight translate the very long and specific English articles into anything that is understandable. This is visible in many of the new entries. I understand you worked on "easier" versions. I tried several times to change at least opening paragraphs so that readers have an idea what it is about. For Swahili most may be done but you should think about that for other languages. I guess the level aimed at should be a lay person and nurses/ medical assistants. I doubt that doctors will use it in Swahili a lot because they often will not have the vocabulary in Swahili ready and can read the English which is easier for them. Kipala (majadiliano) 08:57, 8 Aprili 2015 (UTC)

Yes all our efforts have switched to translating the short / simple overviews due to the reasons you mention. They will be like this more [3] James Heilman, MD (talk · contribs · email)(please leave replies on my talk page) 11:38, 8 Aprili 2015 (UTC)

List for checking

Please see here: Majadiliano ya jamii:Translators without Borders. Some entries in the reference list I cannot find.

If you have some to look at it: all health- disease entries better have a redirect to the English name on the Swahili site as many readers are t yet familiar with the Swahili names, and some translators were a bit liberal in designing names. (example: "migraine" on Swahili redirecting to Kipandauso. I can imagne this is advisable for many "new languages". --Kipala (majadiliano) 10:51, 8 Aprili 2015 (UTC)

Yes redirecting from the En to Sw name is a great idea. James Heilman, MD (talk · contribs · email)(please leave replies on my talk page) 11:44, 8 Aprili 2015 (UTC)

Internet in a box

Your link does not work. it showa #REDIRECT Internet-in-a-Box/Ethiopia.

All in all the Swahili set of the articles is very much a mixed bag. I appreciate highly that many of the articles stemming from your project attract high readers' interest, a number of health entries are always in our group of much searched articles. On the other hand there are still too many really bad translations (also incomprehensible gibberish) and the translations have not been coordinated as far as terminology is concerned. If you started today I would have some advice, because now i know the available specialized dictionary that could and should have been used by all the volunteer translators. Ok, get me your text, i can translate. Kipala (majadiliano) 22:46, 23 Februari 2018 (UTC)

New efforts

Please, before starting again, let you consider very, very much, what said by the late Kipala. Let each and every of your collaborators read well his words above. Peace to you! --Riccardo Riccioni (majadiliano) 05:50, 13 Agosti 2023 (UTC)

Thanks Mtumiaji:Riccardo Riccioni. One thing we have done based on feedback from the late Kipala is switch to only translating short summaries from English rather than entire articles. James Heilman, MD (talk · contribs · email) 05:54, 13 Agosti 2023 (UTC)

Very well. --Riccardo Riccioni (majadiliano) 05:55, 13 Agosti 2023 (UTC)

Another one of the benefits we have is that cross Wikipedia notifications finally work.

Unfortunately our partnership with Translators Without Borders has fizzled out such that we no longer have the group of volunteer translators in Nairobi. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 05:56, 13 Agosti 2023 (UTC)

Let you consider Tanzanian collaborators, contacting any of our wakabidhi/sysops. --Riccardo Riccioni (majadiliano) 06:03, 13 Agosti 2023 (UTC)

Riccardo Riccioni have reached out to all those who have been involved with translating healthcare content in the past. You were third on that list. The person in first was a collaborator who brought in material worked on by TWB folks. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 06:06, 13 Agosti 2023 (UTC)